Curse

Xenrath · Nov 11, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Well I'm going to wade in with a suggestion, if anyone from A-net is reading. Why not just put in random(ish) spawning mobs? This will at a stroke reduce farming (less predictable spawns, add different mobs now and then), make replayability much more interesting (new situations every time) and you don't need to go round nerfing or changing skills all the time. Right, time to put on my asbestos suit cause here come the flames....

chippxero · Nov 11, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I haven't read the whole thread as i don't have that much time, but i feel for all the fire eles that are having to change a few spells and develop a tactic OH NOES... that goes for the smiting monks too.

There are spells and skills for all classes to deal with the new changes, and fr all the peoples at angry rock crying that they can't farm anymore, i suggest they have a read through the skills listings on here and find a few new spells.

Personally i've had to change my warrior's farming build by removing the smiting spells and putting in gladiators defence, i now take less damage and don't have things running away.

YAY for update.

Loralai · Nov 11, 2005, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Reading all the posts of this thread convinces me that the AOE update is great for the game in one sense. Because it sounds like all the people of the type who normally annoy me when I meet them in the PVE part of the game are really ticked off. I'm hoping that they are so irritated by the update that they just stop playing GW. I think this update may filter out some of the lesser tactful and strategic minded players leaving behind players who know how to adjust to changes and fully utilize a profession's skills and spells.

There are two things wrong here. First of all, it will be a detriment to GW if any large amount of people get "so irritated by the update that they just stop playing." Detrimental not just to the earnings of NCSoft, but to you as well. If less people are buying the game, or the expansion pack, you can assure yourself that eventually the profit margin will become stagnant and the company will no longer be able to host. Less "tactful and strategic minded players" still buy the game, regardless of if we want them here or not, they are vital to the survival of the game.

As for adjusting "to changes" to "fully utilize a profession's skills and spells," why do you make the claim that because someone is, let's say, a fire elementalist, they are not doing so. Are meteor shower and firestorm not available skills? What right do you or Anet for that matter have to determine what skills other people should use? If the skills are there, they are an option to use.

Makkert · Nov 11, 2005, 12:55 PM // 12:55

I am going to make a bold statement:

The patch hit beginner and average players, veteran players aren't to worried.

MaglorD · Nov 11, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

All this update has done is to make PVE more challenging and tedious at least for an aoe elementalist. I just did an FA run with 5 henchies with my elementalist using fire storm and meteor shower. It took much longer than before and the drops are still the same.

Henchies are still very stupid and get killed rather easily or stuck.

DeathDealer · Nov 11, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerius

Yes, I can see how your apparently extensive combat training would prepare you for this, because nobody else in the world that hasn't had this training would realise they should run from an explosive device headed their way.

Jesus... 80 people viewing this thread. Wow.

I didnt mean to imply that people wouldnt know what to do in that type of situation...I was just saying...If I was in the shoes of a charr or avicara or whatever and saw someone obviously doing something directed towards me...folllowed by the screeching sound of something breaking the sound barrier.....I would not hang around to find out what it was....carl lewis...

DeathDealer · Nov 11, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

I am going to make a bold statement:

The patch hit beginner and average players, veteran players aren't to worried.

AMEN to this post as well

unienaule · Nov 11, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And for those who are concerned (I won't say "whining" but others have

) about farming, why in Dwayna's name do you think you should be able to solo some of the highest level areas to farm? How realistic is that expectation? I mean, if you could in the past -- and if that wasn't intended or balanced -- does that mean it should be left for players to do so indefinitely? No criticism for farmers, not at all. But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.

Nuff said.

Oh, and to Makkert's post, I second the motion.

obastable · Nov 11, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

I can't disagree more. I do not farm to buy weapons, I am perfectly satisfied with those that I have (and none are godly or perfect). They do all the damage I need on all of my characters. Secondly, I don't farm to buy fissure armor. I hate the look of it, and have absolutely no reason to buy it. I farm because I have completed the game, have created four characters which are all level 20, and have run out of things to do. I farm to get a small tweak of excitement when I get a good drop, and occasionally to sell it.

Furthermore I see absolutely nothing wrong with farming. It's enjoyable to most people who do it, otherwise you have the option to NOT do it. In any game with an economic trade, it is usually a mainstay, and in my opinion it SHOULD be.

If all of the farming nerfs are centered around curbing the gold and item botters, consider this. There will ALWAYS be bots in ANY game, period. FPS games have bots, what do developers do to curb that? Do they alter the weapons, the classes, the skills, the maps? Why no, they don't. Their solution is much more intelligent than that of ANet. They install BOT DETECTION on their servers, such as PunkBuster, AntiTCC, etc... And when the botters get around those...they update the detection, not the game.

I'm not sure where you're disagreeing with me. I'm not saying that they should remove farming, or make it impossible. In fact, I didn't say that at all. My points were toward regulating the economy itself, and leaving the farmers free to do whatever they want to do. I'm not suggesting that item or money drops be limited or lessened in any way. Simply suggesting that a hard coded market be implemented for the buying and selling of the items themselves. People would still farm for money and items, the only difference is the value of the item would decrease, and those who barter items incessantly would be forced to do so at realistic prices. For example, if you could purchase a 10/10 sundering sword hilt for 20k from a vendor you wouldn't have sellers trying to scam you out of 60k to get one. Is that extra 1% chance sunder really worth 4 times as much as a 10/9 hilt? I think not, yet the current barter system has said otherwise. I myself don't farm to get the best items or the most expensive armor. I don't have FoW armor. I have 5 swords, none of which are perfect. They do the job I need them to do. I, like you, farm for something to do. When I'm not farming, I run people places for tips. Tips to me is anything from money to items to a simple "Thank you" (someone paid me 4 stone summit badges to run them from Beacons to Droks today and that's just fine by me). Most of the money I make goes to guildies or random people. Hell, I paid someone else today after I ran THEM to Droks just because he made me laugh the whole way there.

I don't think you and I disagree on anything. I Admin a FPS clan that owns & operates our servers, and am 100% in agreement with you on the benefits of entities such as Punkbuster. Although not completely foolproof, they significantly decrease the amount of botters, hackers, and cheaters in the games they support.

nimloth32 · Nov 11, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Anet should really consider undoing this update. This time they are really doing it too much. By this update, they totally nerfing fire spell almost to useless due to the fact that most fire spell is AoE spell. I remember a bad combat update once almost making star wars: galaxies to lose their player coz many was unhappy about the update and decided to leave the game. Anet should really consider undoing this update (i mean monster running away from spells with AoE part). It is good if they want to implement team effort in this game but this is not the right way. They are making me in closer to quit this game each time they updated the game coz most of the time almost every update is about bad news and nerfage. If Anet continue to nerf GW, the game will die a slow death, not by our hand, it is by their hand. Plz consider the balance between realism and fun of the game, anet. This game suppose to be fun not hard (Referring to PvE). I really feel sorry for those fire mage. Their AoE spell is close to useless now. My symbol of wrath and balthazar's aura is also useless now coz monster start to run away at the first sight of the spell. Man, anet is killing this game.

Makkert · Nov 11, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by nimloth32

Anet should really consider undoing this update. This time they are really doing it too much. By this update, they totally nerfing fire spell almost to useless due to the fact that most fire spell is AoE spell. I remember a bad combat update once almost making star wars: galaxies to lose their player coz many was unhappy about the update and decided to leave the game. Anet should really consider undoing this update (i mean monster running away from spells with AoE part). It is good if they want to implement team effort in this game but this is not the right way. They are making me to lost interest in closer to quit this game each time they updated the game coz most of the time almost every update is about bad news and nerfage. If Anet continue to nerf GW, the game will die a slow death, not by our hand, it is by their hand. Plz consider the balance between realism and fun of the game, anet. This game suppose to be fun not hard (Referring to PvE).

What you call a nerf may very well be a buff.
Ignite Arrows causes running? I'd call that interesting.
Fear Me! maybe also? Hilarious most of all.
Running away means opportunities for using skills that trigger on moving foes.
- Hunter's Shot
- Bull's Charge
- Water Trident
- Protector's Strike
- ....... (can't think of more from top of my head)

Basicly every one time aoe got a slight confusement buff.
I've read that it makes tanking harder, haven't tested it. That could make PvE somewhat harder.

But be carefull on judging this patch allready. Its only a day old.

~ makkert

jonbca · Nov 11, 2005, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I find it really funnny how many people have cried out that monsters running from AOE is a bad thing. If they throw an AOE skill onto you, what do you do? You get out from under it! Now why shouldnt the computer have the potential to be as inteligent as you? And thats what this all really comes down to. Some people who play this game somply look for a build of the net, run it blindly and hope for the best. Basically this makes them that much less effective as players because they dont know how their skills mix. The problem with this update is that it gizes the AI skill about the same as a person who doesnt know their skills. By this i mean that the AI can now randomly spam whatever skills they have and run from AOE. More experienced players will look at this and say "big deal. I cant bring that super AOE fire ele any more" and they will mix some earth or water skills in there. That really is a shame. Shame on anet for making people THINK about their skill set.

Oh, and just so you know, AOE still works, you just got to give them a reason to stay in the damage zone

Venus · Nov 11, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Thanks Anet! Its a helpful update.

Fallstar · Nov 11, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Protecter's Stirke has a use!

I've been fighting through the crystal desert and we had a fire ele.
AoEs didn't cause scatter to the horror stories I've been seeing in this thread.
Occasionaly it did but it wasn't that bad.
Tanking is still the same.

And pinning mobs works also, since the flee away from you group so it is easy to pin them in aka "flanking"

I don't mind it but I can see why people would complain.

I'll still be playing.

id0l · Nov 11, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

This update is complete and utter trash and I'm not even going to explain my reasoning. It has been said hundreds of times already just in this thread.

I don't even realize what this update was trying to fix. What was wrong with the enemies in the first place? Big deal, they didn't move out of a damn AoE. This IS NOT PvP, and if I wanted real intelligence, I'll go play PvP, thanks.

Want to make PvE more challenging? Stop nerfing skills and classes in entirety and maybe *gasp* add some new freakin' content. I see this huge nice Halloween update with all this new stuff, and instead of doing the same for the sake of PvE you instead nerf every AoE in the game (as far as PvE is concerned - only place AoE really matters, anyway) and give monsters and henches even more retarded artificial intelligence.

You want the monsters to move out of AoE? Fine. Make them move out of it if they are under 50% health or something. Not "OMG, FIRESTORM FOR 10/DMG A SECOND, RUN!!!!!!!111111" I hear that some mobs even flee before the AoE has completed casting...yeah, don't think I need to comment on that one.

As it stands right now, you might as well remove AoE from the game, because there really isn't a point to it now anyway. It all revolves around the fact that the target stays stationary...so what good does it do now? None, that's what.

Oh, bring my ranger to snare everything in sight, you say. I think not, I don't play a ranger to snare, I play her to deal massive damage quickly. Who are YOU to tell me how to play my character? I sure as hell am NOT bringing crippling shot on my ranger just to keep them in a damned AoE for God's sake.

Oh, bring a water ele to slow everything down, you say. Why should we be FORCED to bring a certain class/build just so we can use damned AoE. That is just an incredibly stupid notion. Righto, so now instead of getting a Fire nuker, we are forced to bring a Water Snare ele/Crippling Shot ranger in addition to the Fire nuke to get the same effect. GG. Oh, not to mention, alot of these snare skills are located way into the game, so basically using any form of AoE prior to them is completely and utterly stupid.

Again, telling us how to play our characters.

No point in lowering the Dopplegangers power. Now it's easier than ever for someone that hasn't developed experience/skill to progress in the game, resulting in even crappier PUGs for the progressively harder missions.

ArenaNet has publicly said they aren't against farming - but I can't honestly say what this update was targetting - nerfing Fire Ele's, nerfing all AoE's, or nerfing farming. But it sure did nerf the heck out of everything at once. Not good.

Anything that puts the community in such an uproar like this should definately be reviewed and considered being withdrawn. Everywhere I went in the game people were flaming arenanet and the devs for such a stupid update. I'm talking alot of furious players here. Countless people saying they are quitting for WoW. Etc.

I highly doubt much of this update could have been tested, otherwise you would have been able to implement it much smoother, without resorting to such global skill and class nerfs, etc.

Peace,
id0l

Probably not a coincidence that I haven't said the word "stupid" so many times in one post before. Ever.

Faith In Madness · Nov 11, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus

Thanks Anet! Its a helpful update.

yet another person who doesnt want to explain why they think so

obastable · Nov 11, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I'd just like to add, to those who are waving the flag of realism around, that this is a game and not reality. Realism only holds a standard in a fantasy game so long as it doesn't interfere with mass playability and customer enjoyment.

If you wanted realism, you wouldn't be playing a fantasy game.

There is a big difference between "realism" and "believability". It is not impossible to make the game mechanics function in a way that is believable without being realistic.

I find it completely believable that some things are too stupid to know when to run away, and others too enraged to consider the possibility.

I find nothing believable in everything running like a chicken with its head cut off when it gets hit with one specific type of damage, yet stands still and fights to its dying breath if hit with another.

I find it remarkably unbelievable that every mobile in the entire game suddenly developed an innate ability to sense AoE and decide it was a good thing to run from, yet has not developed the ability to sense that being hit with a sharp pointy object should warrant the same response.

Kabale · Nov 11, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Well this is just exploit galore.

Everyone, go mo/ or /mo and pack a bit of ZEALOT'S FIRE. If you're getting attacked, just cast a heal and the enemy runs away woho!

I'll just voice my opinion on this as well...

The changes shouldn't have been part of an update, they should have either had it this way before release, or never at all. The game is well settled in now, and this kind of core design change is just absurd.

I'd say revert, but that's never going to happen, IMO.

Sha Noran · Nov 11, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

There will ALWAYS be bots in ANY game, period. FPS games have bots, what do developers do to curb that? Do they alter the weapons, the classes, the skills, the maps? Why no, they don't. Their solution is much more intelligent than that of ANet. They install BOT DETECTION on their servers, such as PunkBuster, AntiTCC, etc... And when the botters get around those...they update the detection, not the game.

VAC Ban, FTW!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

I am going to make a bold statement:

The patch hit beginner and average players, veteran players aren't to worried.

I'll third that bad boy.

pyrohex · Nov 11, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Stefan and Little Thom have yet to learn that chasing something halfway across the map is as dumb as standing in the middle of a Meteor Shower.